Centering Racial Equity in Arts Funding (Podcast Transcript)

This Podcast was recorded on January 3, 2020. The full transcript of this podcast is published below.
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Sherylynn Sealy:
Welcome to a podcast by Grantmakers in the Arts, a National Association of Public and Private Arts and Culture Funders. I’m Sherylynn Sealy, GIA’s Program Manager. This is the kickoff to the Grantmakers in the Arts Racial Equity Podcast Series, our first of this kind. We are glad you joined us today. GIA is a community of practice with a shared vision of investing in arts and culture as a strategy for social change. Since 2008, GIA has been elevating racial equity as a critical issue affecting the field. To actualize this work within the sector, GIA published its racial equity and arts funding statement of purpose in 2015, and the journey has reaffirmed the many intersections at play as we leverage our dollars for the deepest impact.

Sherylynn Sealy:
In this series, we will discuss racial justice and racial equity with funders, lawyers, artists, arts administrators, and other key players in the funding ecosystem, speaking about mentorship, immigration, criminal justice, radical imaginaries and other topics to get a deeper understanding of how we can all be agents of change. To kick us off, we are glad to have GIA President and CEO, Eddie Torres joining us. He will discuss why GIA values and centers racial equity via a stroll through the history of arts funding. He will share some ways that GIA is working with others to actualize this in concrete ways, both within GIA and externally, and how GIA will continue this creative collaboration across sectors. He brings an immense amount of experience as a grantmaker in the public and private sectors. And we are glad to have him join us to foreground the first racial equity podcast series. So Eddie, quite a few folks who are familiar with Grantmakers in the Arts, CGIA as a social justice organization because of the way we sent her racial equity in our work. Can you talk a bit about that? Why does GIA value racial equity so much?

Eddie Torres:
Thanks Sherylynn. I mean, Grantmakers in the Arts values racial equity for a number of reasons. One of them is the work that the social impact of the arts project, out of University of Pennsylvania, has done that has revealed the extent to which, in places where there are cultural assets present, like artists and arts organizations and cultural participants, this correlates highly with other forms of social impact. So where there are cultural assets, you see higher rates of educational attainment, you see higher rates of physical health and mental health, you see higher rates of just safety. And it actually matters more in low income communities, which are oftentimes communities of color.

Eddie Torres:
Another reason why Grantmakers in the Arts values racial equity, is I’ll tell a brief anecdote, when I was with the Rockefeller Foundation, we were all matrix, we all worked on more than one portfolio at once. And so I was once speaking to a colleague from the Center for Court Innovation, she was talking about the kind of services they provided for victims of human trafficking, she had no idea that I worked in the arts. And I said, “Among all the services that you provide, what are the most appreciated by the recipients of those services?” And without knowing I had an arts background at all, she said, “The arts workshops.”

Eddie Torres:
She said, the reason is, I was talking to one of the recipients of our services. And she said, “Well, why do you value the arts workshops so much?” And she said, “Whenever you’re providing services for me, I appreciate it. But in those moments, I know that I’m a problem that you’re trying to solve. It’s only when I’m engaged in the art workshops that I have my full humanity.” We believe that’s arts and culture as did this woman, as this woman articulated, that arts and culture is what gives us our full humanity. It’s what makes us fully human. And we believe that we all deserve our full humanity.

Eddie Torres:
So this is also an essential reason why we value racial equity. And then we at Grantmakers in the Arts, have made a strategic decision to foreground racial equity. We’re not race exclusive, but we are race explicit, and it’s for a number of reasons. Within other oppressed people’s communities, including women, members of the LGBT community, people with disabilities, people of color still face the worst social outcomes. So according to the National Disability Institute, 24% of people with a disability live in poverty, but that’s if they’re white. For black people with a disability, 40% of them live in poverty. Women make like 82 cents on the dollar compared to a white man, but that’s white women who make 82 cents on the dollar. Black women make 65 cents on the dollar. Latinx women make 61 cents on the dollar. Trans people are twice as likely to live in extreme poverty as the general US population, but that’s specifically white trans people, Latinx trans people face seven times the poverty rate of the general population, black trans people face eight times the poverty rate.

Eddie Torres:
So one of the other reasons is that we feel that other strategies of combining considerations of race with other considerations like gender disability, et cetera, too often result in considerations of race being pushed into the background or ignored. The US Department of Labor and the American Association of University Women have found that in the first two decades of affirmative action, the greatest growth in career and education has been experienced, not by any racialized group, but by white women.

Eddie Torres:
And this brings us to the final point I want to make, which is the US’ creation of race was established to keep oppressed people separate. Unless we articulate our support for racialized people while calling out the separation strategy, we inadvertently reinforced the separation strategy. So for instance, according to one study, nearly 70% of white women surveyed either somewhat or strongly opposed affirmative action for people of color. Now, this is an example of an all too frequent phenomenon, the use of race, as the means to convince people who are being helped by a policy or a practice to disavow that policy or practice, but you can’t convince people to vote against the policy or practice by telling them it helps them. So you tell them it helps people who have been racialized, which is what race was largely established to do.

Sherylynn Sealy:
Yeah, that’s absolutely right. So when we’re considering racial equity work and what it looks like in practice today, it’s impossible not to discuss the need for inclusivity and differentiation because there’s a lot of undoing and unlearning involved as a result of the history and original model of arts funding practice. So can you offer some insight into how we got to where we are now in terms of funding practices and offer some considerations and mindsets we need to adapt in order to be effective drivers towards racial justice?

Eddie Torres:
Yes. I mean, Darren Walker has put out recently this really brilliant book called, From Generosity to Justice, and he views philanthropy in that book, through the light of Andrew Carnegie’s work, The Gospel of Wealth. Darren does this brilliant job of viewing Andrew Carnegie and his peers work in the light of their refusal to consider the structural inequities that led to their wealth and to the poverty for so many of us. And similarly when it comes to racial equity and arts funding, we at Grantmakers in the Arts look at history because it’s foundational in terms of how our field operates. For so many of our giving practices in arts funding, we have to look back at the 1800s when arts funding, as we know it, began to take shape. It was largely coming out of a time when newly wealthy Americans were looking to put their cities on the map for the first time, this is still a very young country. And their model for a world class city was a European city.

Eddie Torres:
They were also looking to put themselves on the map for the first time as a newly rich people. This was a very new concept, the idea of the newly rich, very American concept. And so this created a couple of dynamics. One was, it created the establishment of cultural institutions that were well financed that were specifically holding up a Western European forms, because they were looking at Western European cities. It also created the idea of leverage. It was important for these people in terms of actually being able to establish these large institutions, to be able to leverage their investments so that every amount they were matched by other wealthy individuals, this created a dynamic that we still have to this day where cultural institutions or cultural organizations, board of directors, is considered a good board and effective board if it’s a monied to board and everyone is being sort of pressured to have a network of very wealthy people, for them to be a successful organization.

Eddie Torres:
It also created the practice of leverage that a successful grant was a grant that was matched by other donors. This inherently was difficult for communities of color where this is a country where money has been so intensely racialized. And it’s also created a dynamic where leverage favors organizations who have wealthy individuals in their networks. It rewards institutions in those monied networks instead of organizations in low income communities. Now, what then happens after this was in the early 1900s, increasingly, foundations began to come online. They were just looking for what looked like best practices, and they just imported all of these practices from individual donors into their own practices. So this reliance upon leverage, this reliance upon the Western European Canon got copied by foundation practice and then got copied by public agency practice when local arts agencies and the national endowment for the arts came online.

Eddie Torres:
Now, this is something that the field is increasingly beginning to recognize now, in part, thanks to Grantmakers in the Arts and our capitalization work, as well as our racial equity work and we’re really grateful to see these changes. We also look a little bit earlier in our nation’s history for some of the assumptions that underlie these practices, though. One of them is what Ibram X. Kendi calls assimilationist racism. So this is an attitude that is held by oftentimes very well intended people. He actually cites Cotton Mather as an example of this. Cotton Mather was an early abolitionist, very influential in American history. Somebody who was really fighting against the institution of slavery, but central to his idea of saving black and brown people, whether they were African slaves or whether they were Native Americans was the idea that Abraham Kennedy calls assimilationist racism. So for a segregationist racist, people of color are inferior by birth, they are inherently deficient. But for assimilationist racists, they believe that people of color can be saved, that their inferiority is in fact, cultural, it’s not natural, it’s not genetic.

Eddie Torres:
The way this manifested for an abolitionist like Cotton Mather was Christianization, that they could be saved if became Christian. But this also became very enmeshed in the way our culture is manifested. So this is what got us Indian Schools, this is what got us the banning of drumming and African songs, and even the African language, as well as Native American languages and Native American cultural expression. When we’re trying to help people of color by engaging them in the Western European Canon, we’re inherently de-valuing their own cultural forms. And many of us are really well-intended, we actually want to share the cultural forms that have been valued throughout our nation’s history. We’re just not necessarily recognizing that we’re de-valuing another cultures forms by doing so and by extension devaluing other people.

Eddie Torres:
Also part of how this manifest then becomes inherently quantifiable. So that’s how come you have 2% of all cultural institutions receiving nearly 60% of foundation giving to the arts. In a country where 33% of our residents are people of color, only 4% of cultural philanthropy goes to organizations of color. Our nation’s largest white theater has an annual operating budget of between 50 and $60 million a year. Our largest black theater has an annual operating budget of under $4 million a year. Our largest Latino theater has an operating budget under $3 million a year. So these attitudes, while they certainly are attitudes, they have material impacts. They have material impacts that we not only feel, but we can actually see and that we can count them.

Sherylynn Sealy:
Yeah. And I think that was key bridging that gap between the mindsets and how that transfers into decisions that are made. And when that continues on and everyone’s making the same types of decisions that becomes the best practice. And then finally we see the results that you just shared. And I think that’s why it’s really key for us to consider narrative change as a strategy towards racial equity and racial justice. And so with that said, are there other strategies or concrete steps that you’ve seen to be effective over the course of your work or that you might suggest for others who want to fund for racial justice and make a deep impact?

Eddie Torres:
When we look at effective practices around racial equity in arts funding, it’s really interesting how varied they can be. We have a whole line of work at Grantmakers in the Arts around capitalization, around effectively supporting organizations to be able to withstand the winds of change in the philanthropic market. The philanthropic market is inherently volatile, and we believe it’s really essential to make sure that organizations are capitalized so they can withstand that philanthropic of market volatility. I talked earlier about Darren Walker’s work at the Ford Foundation around his book, From Generosity to Justice. The Ford Foundation is one of five foundations, including the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, the Open Society Foundation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, who have committed to increasing support for administrative overhead for their grantees.

Eddie Torres:
This is essential actually for achieving racial equity in arts funding, because that kind of support is what pays people’s salaries, it’s what pays for rents. And it is absolutely essential for organizations that are financially vulnerable, that they have administrative support. On top of that, there’s the importance of funding operating reserves so that organizations are actually able to save money over time and to be able to withstand the volatility of the philanthropic market. Similarly, recovery capital is very important. Recovery capital is basically what’s lets organizations pay down debt. Change capital is very important for organizations to address their business model and risk capital is very important for organizations to be able to take advantage of an opportunity that may not work that may not pay out and where that risk won’t inherently shut them down. And there are organizations, there are funders that are increasingly recognizing this and that are increasingly supporting these kinds of things, whether it’s operating or recovery or change or risk.

Eddie Torres:
Similarly, a lot of the organizations, a lot of our members that are supporting racial equity and arts funding, are taking a social justice perspective on this work. They’re securing buy in from their leadership, whether it’s their trustees or their commissioners, they’re setting intentional policy with goals. And they’re not only doing that as an internal process, but they’re doing that as a community based process so that they’re engaging the stakeholders that they’re most looking to serve, and they’re establishing accountability measures with those stakeholders, so that those stakeholders aren’t the subject of their generosity, but are also drivers of their processes.

Eddie Torres:
There’s nothing that requires, particularly a foundation, to do that. The ones who are doing that are really putting themselves out there, living the spirit of their values by making themselves accountable to the communities that they serve, and they’re doing it, they’re increasingly doing it. So related to all of these points, I’ve been making around capitalization, around supporting things beyond just supporting projects or supporting programs, ultimately what that comes down to is supporting an organization’s mission. And that requires a great deal of trust, that requires a great deal of humility, and that requires a great deal of courage. And we’re seeing organizations increasingly doing that, and it’s really inspiring and it’s essential.

Sherylynn Sealy:
That’s right. Trust, humility, and courage are huge. And so thank you for giving all of those recommendations. And so with all of those great points, I’m going to circle back to the beginning of our conversation. This is the kickoff to a larger series of racial equity podcasts. And we’ve got a slate of stakeholders for future podcast episodes, including artists, lawyers, funders, and community members within the funding ecosystem. So that we can hear more on what they’re seeing in the field regarding racial equity and what funders can do more of. So what can you say about this need for creative and intersectional collaboration?

Eddie Torres:
Well, I think the issue of intersectionality is really key. When we do this work at Grantmakers in the Arts, first of all, we are very deliberate about being race explicit, but we’re also really deliberate about not being race exclusive because we don’t live lives where you’re either a woman or a person of color, or you’re a person with a disability or you’re an artist, et cetera. No one lives their life that way, obviously. And also, we are increasingly working with other parts of the philanthropy serving community because artists don’t live lives exclusively as artists in isolation from their other parts of their lives, and this is essential. One, it’s essential to be able to serve artists in a way that’s thorough and responsive, but it’s also essential for our learning. I mean, there are so many parts of the social sector that are particularly concerned with issues of racial equity, other forms of equity, and with social justice. And we have so much to learn and we have so much to contribute, but we can only do that if we’re sincerely in dialogue, as opposed to just broadcasting.

Sherylynn Sealy:
That’s right. The work should never be siloed because, I mean, the world is not siloed. And so the problems are not siloed. And we see the result of misuse power and systems of oppression across all sectors, not just one. But before we wrap up, do you have any other thoughts that you’d like to share?

Eddie Torres:
Well, the last thought I’d like to share is, how essential it is that we simply start where we are. With such frequency, I talk to people about this work, and so often colleagues express if they’re somewhat intimidated by this work, because it seems very big. And we oftentimes feel that somebody is further along in this work than we are. And it’s very easy to view somebody further along as though it’s a binary rather than a continuum. So it’s very easy to say you’re either there, or you’re not there, as though each is an instate and a fixed state of being when the fact of the matter is nobody is there or not there because everybody’s on a journey, it’s a learning process and it’s a process that’s continuous and ongoing.

Eddie Torres:
And so we all just start where we are. The fact of the matter is, if we are engaging each other as true colleagues and as friends, we honor each other on our journey and we recognize that it is only through respecting the process of learning and engaging and respecting the vulnerability that it takes and the courage that it takes in the humility that it takes to go on this kind of journey that we can make progress. None of us can make it alone, we can only do it together.

Sherylynn Sealy:
That’s right. It’s definitely not easy work, but like you said, it’s a journey and once we’re with other folks who want to take the journey as well, then we’re golden. There’s no better time than the present, right? Just start where we are, like you said. So thank you, Eddie, for the conversation.

Eddie Torres:
That’s exactly right.

Sherylynn Sealy:
Yeah. So thank you, Eddie, for the conversation and for joining us.

Eddie Torres:
Thank you, Sherylynn.

Sherylynn Sealy:
Yes. To kick off this series. While racialization and racism continue to manifest in all of our lives for benefit and disadvantage, it’s our collective responsibility to be agents of change towards racial justice. But the key is to acknowledge and understand how racialized our world is, and once we can do that, then we can begin to address the issues. So we look forward to continuing these conversations. So be sure to tune in to next month’s episode of the GIA Racial Equity Podcast Series. If you have any questions about this podcast or upcoming programming, feel free to reach out to me, Sherylynn Sealy at sherylynn@giarts.org, visit our Twitter @giarts or follow us on Instagram at @grantmakersinthearts. And remember, as Angela Davis says, “If we don’t take seriously, the ways in which racism is embedded in our structures of institutions, if we assume that there must be an identifiable racist who was the perpetrator, then we won’t ever succeed in eradicating racism.” Thanks so much for listening.